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Thread: zenon server acting as a client

  1. #1
    Join Date
    29.08.2009
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    LEGAZPI CITY
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    Lächeln zenon server acting as a client

    Just want to ask if these is possible for zenon, server acting as a client

    here is the scenario:

    SERVER A- with zenon software communicating to relay A & B thru IEC61850 protocol

    - displaying in the runtime the SINGLE LINE DIAGRAM of SUB A in
    one picture
    ( where relay A & B is connected).

    - where datas ( controls,analog and status) that is being displayed in

    runtime are in IEC61850 format.

    - sending datas ( analog and status) to SERVER C thru DNP
    process gateway.

    SERVER B- with zenon software communicating to relay C & D thru IEC61850 protocol

    - displaying in the runtime the SINGLE LINE DIAGRAM of SUB B in
    one picture
    ( where relay C & D is connected).

    - where datas ( controls,analog and status) that is being displayed in

    runtime are in IEC61850 format.

    - sending datas ( analog and status) to SERVER C thru DNP
    process gateway.

    SERVER C- with zenon software communicating to SERVER A & SERVER B
    using DNP Protocol and acting as a DNP SLAVE .

    - displaying in runtime the SINGLE LINE DIAGRAM
    of SUB A & SUB B in one picture.

    - where datas ( analog and status) that is being displayed in runtime are

    in DNP format.


    Is it possible if I change the diagram ( SINGLE LINE DIAGRAM OF SUB A) in SERVER A the diagram ( SINGLE LINE DIAGRAM OF SUB A) of SERVER C will also change ? Even if SERVER C is using different protocol and where the picture is different since both sub A & sub B are already included in one picture?

    Thanks!!

  2. #2

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    I'm not sure if you are aware of the native zenon networking capabilities. On a standard PC, with a TCP/IP network and name resolution, A PC can be server, standby server, or client, for one or more projects.

    The network is activated with just one checkbox, and does not require any additional installation or configuration. With just one additional checkbox you specify a standby server, and have failsafe redundancy of the zenon project(s).

    In case of redundancy, the 850 driver is started on both the server and the standby server. The server is the active communicator to the relay. On both PCs, server and standby server, the runtime can be operated individually, and can show the same or different pictures. On a third PC, a client, the runtime can also be operated individually, and receives the values for the pictures from the server. If the server fails, the standby server takes over and is now the active communicator. As the standby server buffers values (it also reads from the relays, even if it is not the active communicator) there is NO DATA LOSS. The client will also notice that the server has failed, and will now connect to the standby server automatically.


    Of course I don't know your exact configuration, but I could imagine the following:

    The server A runs as a server for the zenon project. In the project there are two 61850 drivers, for relay A&B and fro relay C&D. The server B runs as a standby server, automatically achieving seemless redundancy. The server C, runs as a client of this project.

    Of course you can also split this into two different projects, and use an integration project to view e.g. relay A&B on Server A, relay C&D on Server B, and relay A&B and C&D on Server C.

    So if you have a TCP/IP connection to your Server C, using the zenon native network capabilities is probably the most easy way. You don't have to create a new seperate project. When you make changes to the project and reload the changes on Server A, the changes are automatically taken over on Server B and Server C.

    If you want or must use DNP3, of course you can use the zenon process gateway to provide the data from Server A and Server B runtime per DNPv3 slave, to any DNPv3 master. This can of course also be a seperate zenon project with our DNPv3 driver.

    You can display values (analogs) from Server A and Server B at the same time in one picture on Server C. It is the same as you would display on Server A values from two different relays (A & B) with the IEC61850 driver, instead that you are now using the DNPv3 driver. In this case, it is not a relay you are communicating to per DNPv3, but a zenon runtime.

    The same is also possible with the process gateway and IEC60870, Modbus, or SNMP (you would need a tcp/ip network to use SNMP, 870 and modbus would be possible using a serial connection)

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    clarification about ...

    Server B is not acting as a standby server, it is a standalone server same with Server A

    My main concerned for this one since


    Server A having SINGLE (ELECTRICAL) LINE DIAGRAM of SUBSTATION A in and all combi elements are linked IEC61850 data format in this project

    Server B having SINGLE (ELECTRICAL) LINE DIAGRAM of SUBSTATION B in and all combi elements are linked IEC61850 data format in this project

    and

    I configured Server C by combining the SINGLE (ELECTRICAL) LINE DIAGRAM OF SUB A and SUB B in one PICTURE ( since SERVER C is in the CENTRAL SUBSTATION) and all the combi elements are using DNP data format

    And If ever I changed or edited the graphics (SINGLE (ELECTRICAL) LINE DIAGRAM of SUBSTATION A) @ Server A I want the graphics @Server C will also changed?

    take note of the configuration @SERVER C, the graphics is having electrical line diagram of SUB A & SUB B in one picture

  4. #4

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    even without a standby server, "Server C" could still be a client of "Server A" and "Server B", displaying the data from these PCs over a tcp/ip network. There would be no need to create a seperate project for this.

    But I think I now understand your question.


    If you have e.g. a /XCBR1.Pos.stVal (PACKED LIST) on Server A, and you use the proces gateway DNPv3 to provide this as an analog input in the proces gateway configuration, and use the DNPv3 driver, to read this variable as an analog input with the configured offset (real variable) it will have the same value on Server A in the 850 driver as on Server C as a variable from the DNPv3 driver.

    It does not matter in this case if you have activated the option "deactivate standard double point value mapping" in the driver configuration, the value "exported" through the DNPv3 process gateway is the same.

    In this case however, the XCBR.Pos.stVal on Server A is of the datatype UDINT, and will be of the type "REAL" on Server C when read as an analog Input.

    I can not tell if your combi-elements will show the same on Server A and Server C. That depends on how your combi-elements are configured, but I think it should be ok.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    04.09.2009
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    Dear Clemen,

    Let me explain what Mr. Howard is asking:

    - We have a server and client, on the same network
    - The client is showing the graphics (single lines etc) of server
    - Is it possible that if we change anything in the HMI graphics of server, this change is automatically reflected on the client side? or even manually, can we do?
    - If we suppose it is possible, can we assume it will work also for multiple servers connected to a single client?


    Looking forward to your response,
    Best regards

    Salman.

  6. #6

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    It is generally true, that a client has the same values for variables as the server, as far as drivers communicating to hardware is concerned. If something is changed on the server, and due to this change a value in the hardware changes, and due to this value change the display changes on the server, this will also change on the client.

    This is also true if the client displays a picture with values from two or more different servers.

    The other way around is also true. If a value is changed on the server, this value change will be sent to the server, and the driver running on the server will send it to the hardware. The driver again will read the value (either cyclic or spontaneous) and distribute the changed value again in the network.

    The "Intern" driver is special. For each variable from this driver, it can be specified wether this variable is local for each PC, or central in the network. (meaning if the value changes on one PC, it will change on all PCs in the network)


    I hope this helps, but I'm still not sure if this answers your question, resp. if I have understood your question correctly.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    04.09.2009
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    Hi Mark,

    Your answer is good and has given an insight about client-server functionalities. I am sorry that I forgot to specify the nature of issue that I and Mr. Hoscillada want to discuss.

    Have a look again:
    - A server is having pictures showing specific diagrams.
    - A client is also showing the SAME diagram of the server
    - If I change the diagram on the server (by changing, i mean if I edit the graphics, change the size of lines, insert more combi elements etc etc), will this change automatically get reflected on the client side also?

    - If yes, is it possible that we can do the same if multiple servers are connected with a single client?


    Many thanks and I really appreciate your immediate response.

    Regards
    Salman

  8. #8
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    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    I know it will change @ client side since all these graphics and variables are dependent on the server

    But how about if the client is acting as a server also. This client/server is dependent only on graphics (lines, buttons,pictures, combi elements, etc) but not on the variables .Since it has own driver and variables ( check my example Server C is using DNP variables)

  9. #9

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    Quote Originally Posted by shikra View Post
    Have a look again:
    - A server is having pictures showing specific diagrams.
    - A client is also showing the SAME diagram of the server
    - If I change the diagram on the server (by changing, i mean if I edit the graphics, change the size of lines, insert more combi elements etc etc), will this change automatically get reflected on the client side also?

    - If yes, is it possible that we can do the same if multiple servers are connected with a single client?
    If a server is running, and a client is running, and in the editor a change is made to a picture, (change size of lines) and this change is transported to the server (remote transport) and the server is reloaded, the standby server and all clients will automatically immediately take over this change, when the server is reloaded. This is part of the principle of zenon networking.

    However I'm not sure if this matches your configuration. You are speaking of a Server C, with DNP3 driver. This can only be a different, seperate project running on another PC. A client is always running the exact same project as the server!

    I assume that you have copied parts of pictures from the project(s) for Server A / Server B in the editor into the project for Server C, which uses the DNPv3 driver.

    There is no way, that the project running on Server C is a client of a different project running on Server A / Server B.

    As this is a standalone seperate project, changes made to the picture (change of lines) in the project for Server A / Server B, must also be made manually in the editor into the picture for the project running on Server C.

  10. #10

    Default Re: zenon server acting as a client

    Quote Originally Posted by hoscillada View Post
    I know it will change @ client side since all these graphics and variables are dependent on the server

    But how about if the client is acting as a server also. This client/server is dependent only on graphics (lines, buttons,pictures, combi elements, etc) but not on the variables .Since it has own driver and variables ( check my example Server C is using DNP variables)
    This can be true, if you have a multi-project on Server C. You would be a client of the project running on Server A / Server B, and Server for a third project using DNPv3. However this does not make much sense, running a third project communicating via DNPv3 if the same information is available with running a client of both projects.

    I think I still don't know exactly what you want to achieve, or why you have a third project communicating through a DNPv3 driver to the process gateway of the zenon runtime, while you can have a zenon client and have the same information.

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