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Thread: Combined element problem

  1. #1
    Join Date
    07.05.2018
    Posts
    21

    Default Combined element problem

    Hi dear experts,

    In zenon I am using adp driver for redundancy. On the first initialization of zenon, adp driver cant take datas from field drivers (Iec101). So the combined elements are invisible during this stage. In combined element there is a default value picture but zenon ıs not showing this default value picture. Combined elements are invisible, after 5 or 6 seconds it ıs getting normal. What can i do for this issue?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    01.07.2008
    Location
    Salzburg, AT
    Posts
    879

    Default Re: Combined element problem

    in zenon the screen elements, so also combined elements - are not visible as long the linked variable has no value at all. This can be the situation after Runtime start.
    By Runtime start the IEC870 driver opens communication channel to the devices and sends the 'general interrogation' (GI) commands for each sector (COA) - to acquire the initial values of the variables. After the device responded the general interrogation by sending the data - the screen elements displaying this data can become visible.

    The IEC 60870-5-101 communication is on serial, thus it has limited bound rate. By many Information Objects (data points in monitoring direction) the device can need significant time to complete the GI. The device has to send values of all IOs it has.

    When you connect IEC870 driver via ADP driver, there can be the second (small) delay, because the ADP driver first tries to acquire the values via first instance of the variable in its list (from first driver), then the next, then next etc. Have you tried the time when you link with screen elements the IEC870 variables directly?
    If you know which of redundant IEC870 connections has the highest chances to deliver the values, you can make sure that the variable(s) you have configured to be 'Selector' for your ADP variables, has the right value at RT start. If 'Selector' is the internal variable you can configure it to have some initial value differ 0 - to select the right instance/connection of IEC870.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    07.05.2018
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Combined element problem

    Dear Ursulak,

    I try to describe my redundancy system below.

    I am using 2 IEC101 lines, there is no chance to change this drivers because of system network topology. I created variables for ADP driver and IEC101 lines. For example I have 2 Circuit breaker signals from seperated IEC 101 drivers and 1 Circuit Breaker signal from ADP driver. I am getting 2 free signal from RTU with IEC 101 lines to check the signals are invalid or not. I created 1 selector variable and it's value is changing according to IEC101 driver variable is invaild or not. At autostart script, I inserted a function for making selector variable to get datas from first IEC101 driver. If first IEC101 driver variable is invalid, I am changing driver to second one. With a reaction matrix and 2 write set value functions, I can do this issue. If ADP driver is getting values from second IEC 101 driver and first IEC 101 driver is not invalid, I am changing ADP to take datas from first driver. I think this is enough, but sometimes it is not working. I think serial port communication is stoping when you disconnect cables for a long time.

    It is very interesting that combined elements and the other screen elements are invisible if there is no value. Combined elements have default value option. I think it should show default value when variable is not ok.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    07.05.2018
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: Combined element problem

    Dear Ursulak,

    I have another problem with numeric value object. If the driver has problem zenon stores last value to variable, but we dont want to show last value. For example I want to show zero value or if possible I want to clear cache values.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    01.07.2008
    Location
    Salzburg, AT
    Posts
    879

    Default Re: Combined element problem

    > combined elements and the other screen elements are invisible if there is no value. Combined elements have default value option. I think it should show default value when variable is not ok.

    Sorry, but I disagree to this idea.
    In zenon the dynamical screen elements are not visible as long the linked variable has no value at all. This is general rule, because the Runtime does not know if the variable is “empty” only because the driver still haven’t received the initial value, or because the user has created in Editor a variable which then does not exist in the Runtime - will be “empty” forever. Or the user has mistakenly linked some output variable (a command - ‘write-only’) instead an input (monitoring) variable. Current solution assures that mistakes in the list of signals are easy to find during system acceptance tests, and not hidden behind “default” display.

    You can use the general option ‘Variable image remanent‘ which is in all zenon drivers.
    You can configure the driver to start in ‘simulation static’ mode (all variables get value 0) and after RT start - change the driver mode to ‘Hardware’ using zenon function ‘Driver commands’.
    In ADP variable you can add 3th variable from the internal driver or simulator. Internal variables can have configured initial values, simulator variables (remanent if from driver object type “HD”) can be filled with some default values, e.g. using a receipt. 

    > If the driver has problem [..] I want to show zero value

    When driver looses connection, then variables get status INVALID. Some drivers are then also changing the variable value to 0, but not the Energy drivers. To keep the last received value is the behavior requested by customers.
    What is your use-case, why 0?

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