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Thread: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

  1. #1
    jusufs Gast

    Default IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Hallo.
    Habe folgendes Problem. Habe Sprecher 460 Scada 6.50 direkt an Siprotec mit Feldbedienung uber 61850 Protokoll angeschlossen.
    Die Siemens Partner verlangen dass ich Qualifier vor/mit jedem Command mitschicke.

    Meine Losung bis jetzt war, dass ich im Autostart script an betroffene Schalter die Pos.Oper. Check mit 64 Wert einmal bei Runtimestart zur Siprotecs sende - Siehe Screenshot "Autostart".
    Weitere Befehle Pos.Oper.ctlVal werden danach mit Interlocking ewtl. Synchrocheck Bypass korrekt im Siprotec verarbeitet, obwohl in Scada den Command Qualifier im Command Interlocking Maske nicht parametriert ist.

    Leider ist es vorgekommen, dann bei FAT Test moglich war, ein Scada Kommand der mittels Interlockings im Siprotec verworfen sein sollte ohne Verriegelung auszugegeben. Da wir auch uber Gateway Befehle senden konnen, konnte es passieren, dass auch aus dieser "Dispatchingrichtung" ein Kommand ohne Qualifier gesendet wurde und Siprotec auf Befehl ohne Interlocking umgestellt hat.

    Meine Frage: Wie kann ich die Qualifier Eingabe in der Command Interlocking Maske einstellen, damit Verriegelung bei jeder Kommandeingabe immer mit Intelocking weitergeleitet wird. Es fehlt mir die Information, welche Werte bei 61850 eingestellt werden konnen und deren Beschreibung. Habe im 460 Scada Help nur Info bei alteren Protokollen gefunden.

    In der 61850 Norm haben wir rausgefunden, dass eigentlich der Wert 64 falsch ist, da die ersten zwei Bits im Pos. Oper. Check die Interlocking=bit0 und Synchrocheck=bit1 representieren. Deswegen bin ich der Meinung, dass da Wert 3 reinpasst - bitte um Bestatigung.

    Bedanke mich fur Hilfe voraus.
    Jozef Szabo
    Sprecher Scada 460
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Autostart Script.jpg   Command Interlocking.jpg  
    Last edited by jusufs : 16th June 2010 at 10:27

  2. #2
    Join Date
    01.07.2008
    Location
    Salzburg, AT
    Posts
    831

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    The value 64 or 3 are not correct - (according IEC61850-7-2) the Check attribute is a PACKED LIST with only 2 bits - "synchrocheck" and " interlock-check", i.e. the valid set values are 0x80, 0x40, 0xC0 and 0x00.

    There are two methods to set check conditions for the following Operate or SelectWithValue commands:
    1. Check condition can be predefined by setting a value to */Oper.Check[CO]. The actual value of this attribute is used for command service parameter. As you done it up to now.

    2. by setting in Command processing (Befehlsgabe): Action its property Qualifier of Command - as i see on your screenshot this property is not activated yet.
    Last edited by ursulak : 16th June 2010 at 12:27

  3. #3
    jusufs Gast

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Thanks, but if I activate "Use qualifier of Command" as you wrote in point 2, what values should I put inside field "Qualifier of command" if I wish that Siprotec devices should control the interlocking conditions and Synchrocheck.
    Please can you explain me the description of values:
    0x80, 0x40, 0xC0 and 0x00 ?
    Thanks.

  4. #4
    jusufs Gast

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Solved
    Thanks for help. For other user information -see attachment.
    Don't use the Method 1, Method 2 is better !
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Popis.gif  

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Location
    Salzburg, AT
    Posts
    831

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Just to clear why it is like that for people starting the adventure with the IEC 61850 Standard:

    Check attribute is a PACKED LIST (MMS Bit-string) with 2 bits: synchrocheck and interlock-check. According IEC61850-8-1 8.1.3.5 the first member of the PACKED LIST shall be mapped to Bit(0) and this bit shall be the leftmost (most significant) bit of the octet.

    That’s why the valid set values for Check attribute are 0x80=128 (synchrocheck), 0x40=64 (interlock-check), 0xC0=192 (both check bits) and 0x00.
    And by setting in Command processing the property Qualifier of Command, one has to take it into consideration too and reverse the bits order. Thus, the valid set values are 2 - synchrocheck (reversed 01b), 1 - interlock-check (reversed 10b), 3 (both check bits) and 0.

  6. #6
    philippevdt Gast

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Hi,

    We are having the same problem: Sicam 230 directly connected to a 6MD664 using a 61850 connection. We programmed the Qualifier of Command in the Command Group and set the qualifier to 3.

    My colleagues told me it's still not working (command is always output when sending it from the Sicam 230, command is refused by sycnrhocheck when issued at the Siprotec Device).

    Is there anything else to do to make this work?

    Best regards,
    Philippe

  7. #7
    Join Date
    01.07.2008
    Location
    Salzburg, AT
    Posts
    831

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    >the Qualifier of Command in the Command Group and set the qualifier to 3.

    So you sent command with two bits set in Check: synchrocheck and interlock-check. Are you sure the device was expecting both bits?

  8. #8
    philippevdt Gast

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Hi,

    The goal is that the 6MD checks interlocks and performs a synchro check.

    However, when I didn't use the qualifier of control, the interlocks were already checked correctly, only the synchro check was bypassed.

    When I use QOC = 3, the synchro check is still bypassed ...
    Last edited by philippevdt : 7th July 2015 at 07:45

  9. #9
    philippevdt Gast

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    I just found in the 61850 driver manual for Sicam 230 other values for the QOC.

    QOC=9 "00"
    QOC=10 "10" (synchrocheck)
    QOC=11 "11" (interlocking + synchrocheck)
    QOC=others "01" (interlocking)

    Let's try that ...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    01.07.2008
    Location
    Salzburg, AT
    Posts
    831

    Default Re: IEC 61850 Command Qualifier Problem

    Hmm, SICAM 230 and zenon are not identical in Comamnd Processing, only very similar. And the IEC61850 driver in SICAM is not the zenon iec850 driver. So it could be that QoC values to configure in commands are different. I wasn't aware of the difference on QoC (i'm an expert for zenon, not having SICAM).

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